Music > Interviews
Interview with White Lies 2013
03/12/13
‘Big TV’, White Lies’ latest offering, sees the boys return as men, with a triumph of stadium fillers that rival their earlier hits. What went on behind that big television screen to make these anthems? White Lies haven’t been shy in admitting they wanted to write a melodic pop album, which made me wonder if they’ve discovered the magic code for creating musical success. Did they churn out songs sticking to a meticulous production structure, or was there an unexplainable magic to it all? Charles talks of the energy and effort that goes into his song writing, and how crafting Big TV used a touch of cliché and a lot of lyrical honesty.
How are you?I’m good we’re just um having a day off in Zurich.
Yes I’ve seen on a little map of where you’re going and you’re on your way to Milan? Or have you just been?We’re going to go, we’ve got a show in Zurich tomorrow and we’re there after that, yeah.
Oh I see so you’re all over in Europe at the minute aren’t you?Yeah.
So you’re at the start of your world tour and it sees you through until March in Australia, so how are you feeling at the start of it all?Feeling ok, the shows have been going really really well so far. So I think my only concern is not burning out too quickly! No it’s all good, we’re happier than ever playing and being on stage, so I think that will continue really. It’s really rare if the mood or the tone of a tour changes too drastically. Usually if you’re happy when you start, everything’s in it’s right place and your confident in what you have to do then usually you’re able to see it through so, yeah there’s a lot to look forward to. We haven’t been to Australia in five years or something.
I’m a big fan of the Australian music scene as I spent some time there, so that should be exciting for you to get there. So you’ve just come back from Mexico? And Chile you went to as well?No I wish it was Chile, we’ve been to Chile before, no it was just Mexico. We were in America for a bit and then in Mexico for five days, which was a really great trip the show was really good but we also managed to do a lot of cultural activities. My old English teacher from London is now a head teacher out there. It was really nice to meet up with him, and he’s one of the most knowledgeable men I will ever meet, so it was like having the best tour guide you could ever have for the day. We went to the old temple of the sun, a nice archaeological site there.
All the Mayan…Well pre-Mayan actually, they really don’t know who or where it came from, it’s their Stonehenge, but the Mayans took it over after as they don’t know who built it actually. So that was really cool. We’ve been making a real effort in the last two years to do all of that, I mean as soon as I finish this conversation with you we’re heading out to the Modern Art gallery here in Zurich today and it just pays off to make the effort and make use of being in these cities effectively for free.
I know I’ve read before that you don’t often write when you’re on tour? But do you take notes of anything that inspires you? Does it pay off in your songs later or do you keep it separate really, the music and the travel?No I think it pays off later, there’s so much to be said for just waiting and considering. You know writing a song can take fifteen minutes, or four weeks, or longer, so there’s no real set way in preparing to write a song and the preparation time is variable too. So no, we don’t write on the road, but you do collect things up. Whether it’s photos or little notes or memories, it really does all add up and when you come to write again you’ve got his well of experience you can draw up from.
You’re very lucky! I wish I can say the same! So what can we expect from your gigs when you come round to the actual performance of them? Are you putting on a show for the eyes and ears, or do you just strip it back to the instruments on this tour?No, it’s absolutely not stripped back in any way shape or form. We’ve spent every single penny that we were going to make on the show. It’s we’ve put everything into it that we possibly can, creatively and financially. This is I think a bigger show than the one we took to Wembley on the last tour, but we’re taking it to sized of venues like The Roundhouse London and Norwich UEA, so we are putting a Wembley show into that venue. It’s going to be good and definitely not what people are used to in those sized venues I think. But we get a kick out of doing that, why not? We want people going away thinking we’ve totally exceeded their expectations. I think we’re playing better then we ever have so that will tick boxes but you know, the light show is pretty insane.
I saw in a recent interview that Harry’s got a philosophy that if you watch a band bands who make a few mistakes when performing is better than watching the perfect set. Is this something of a mantra for you on the upcoming world tour?Yeah, I think it depends; there are different kinds of mistakes. I think the kind of mistakes harry is talking about are false starts and you I like that. When you go to watch a band and they go to launch into one of their big songs and someone’s like ‘wait I’m not ready’, that sort of stuff I really like. It’s real. But once you’re into the swing of a song I’m quite a perfectionist so it annoys me when someone misses a note or drops a beat. I think as well it’s the interaction with the crowd. The bands I’m more impressed by live are just more human and much more spontaneous rapport with the audience as opposed to scripted and rehearsed speeches you do. You just have to be yourself, that’s what we try. Well you don’t have to be yourself at all, you can be someone totally different if you want but no we’re just not interested in that. We’re just too passionate about the music to be interested in being showmen. Thus far we’ve managed to impress people with the way we play our songs and the production around it on the stage so I don’t feel the need for any of us to being epoch characters right now.
Let the music speak for itself! And the lights! With your set list; will it be a mix of all 3 albums or mainly new tracks from Big TV?Yeah it’s a very equal mix. We’re really aware that we just want to give people a good show. We love the new album and we know others do as well, so new songs from Big TV are going down absolutely as well as older song people have probably heard lots of times so that’s encouraging. But we spread things out pretty evenly, maybe there’s a bit more of an emphasis on the first album and Big TV rather than Ritual. Someone’s always going to be disappointed that we don’t play a certain song or are really happy we chose to play a certain song they didn’t think we would so I think there’s more than enough for people to be excited about and look forward to hearing. I think everything you’ll really expect to play will be in there.
Good I’m excited to come see it now! I know you’re I know you were eager to make a strong melodic pop album – you’ve said you wanted it to be sung at karaoke nights in 30 years time. Are you getting the impression from the gigs so far that you’re achieving that aim?Yeah there’s a lot of singing along. It’s so nice to see. It makes me want to sing a long. I just do harmonies, but when I see people singing along to the songs when we’re playing them it makes me want to sing along as well! It’s really nice. I think because of the simplicity of the lyrics on the new album and the directness of them it’s really nice to see someone mouthing them back to you. There’s no mask or cloak around it, it feels really pure and when you can see people singing and they know exactly what you’ve been trying to get and they feel it too and its just simple, universal themes and ideas that anyone can relate too. I wasn’t trying to break the mould with the lyrics on this album but I was trying to be honest and get to the point and songs like First Time Caller, especially that one I’ll never tire of people singing along to that. It’s a highlight of our career as a song, but it’s also a highlight of the show.
It’s nice when you have the songs, that not-not complicated but you are putting into a melody and that’s what I think you’ve got across in this album.Yeah there’s a quote from Paul Simon a few years ago, or I think I heard it in an interview that there are two different types of songs that you can write. There’s one that a cliché and a song you write for the sake of writing a song – it’s fun and it’s fun a fun idea to write a song and it’s full of cliché. Then you can make a song that’s extremely sort of… what’s the write word… an intellectual exorcise and it’s trying to be very weighty and important. He was like the best songs are always ones that just marry those two ideas. You’ve effectively got some kind of cliche, whether it’s musical or lyrical or even production wise there’s a cliché of some kind. But you manage to inject that with something that just feels quite important. I think that’s what FTC does probably, the only song we’ve ever don’t that successfully. In that even with the lyric like ‘first time caller, long time listener’, which I’m just so baffled that no one’s ever used that before as it’s such a cliché, especially from American things like Frasier or chat shows where there’s radio shows involved and that’s what they always say, their calling in for advice. It’s a massive cliché but the situation that people feel with the melancholy element to the music, it doesn’t feel light hearted, there is weight to it. And the story behind that song if people are totally aware of it or not from interviews or whatever, I just think it works really well. It’s the hardest thing to achieve and you just can’t do it with every song; you look forward to it happening by chance, you’re in the right place at the right time and all of that. That’s a really big moment for us, that song.
Is there some sort of magic recipe you follow to make up an anthem-worthy chorus, or does it just sort of fall into place?There’s a couple of tricks that we know work, but not really! No, not really. We just get lucky. I mean I’m a big fan of when we’re writing you maybe have some chords you like and then playing melodies over that of classic songs, you can just go through hundreds songs and transpose into the right key and then play other people’s vocal melodies over it, and then one of them will just kind of fit. Then it’s like ok well this is something that fits and why does this work; it’s quite sparse or it’s very rapid words or its this kind of melody or it’s that kind of melody with this much gap between these two gaps – you just figure it out then work it into how you want it. I’m trying to think of a good example on this record… when we were writing Big TV we were referencing Seal a lot. Harry and I are a big fan of the big hits of Seal. I think those four or five tracks that made him a superstar are very much – you can tell why they made him a superstar – they are very good song writing. These are references we touched upon quite a lot. I’m a big fan of Aimee Mann’s song writing, I think she’s really good and I often listen to her solo stuff from Till Tuesday, the band she was in in the 80’s. Yeah, classic things, Fleetwood Mac, Neil Young.
Was there one main songwriter for the album, as I know you can often take the lead on this? Or was Big TV more of collaboration between the three of you?Well Harry and I write everything together, sat next to each other pretty much. Occasionally we take it in turns to start ideas, but we work well together and we’re obviously both in the same band. But we both have different ways of making music. So if harry makes music on his own it sound completely different to the music that I would make if it wrote alone. So harry might start two ideas – when I say ideas I mean a couple of chord progressions and a loose drum beat over it – then we turn those in to songs. Then he’ll say right it’s your turn now, then I’ll go home and come up with a couple then bring them in the next day, the we’ll work on them together. It’s a really healthy way of working, because I remember there was a point on this record where Harry said you’ve got to start some ideas now because everything I’m writing is starting to sound the same to me now! The start of every song sounds too similar, so we need to mix it up otherwise I’m going to get board. So instantly I splay something and Harry’s like ‘I’d never have done that’ and Harry plays something and I think I wouldn’t have either, so it’s a great way of working.
When writing the album did you picture it being performed in big stadiums, gigs and festivals? Or did you think of people listening to it in their bedrooms?I always like to think – my most nostalgic listening is always in a car. I don’t know how to drive but I think that’s the way I learnt to love music; in the car with my dad playing tapes. I always like the thought of people listening to our music in their car, probably alone and on a really fun night drive somewhere. That’s how I like to imagine it.
You’ve said before that you see the band as a vehicle for the songs you’ve written, so do you see yourself as a constantly evolving band, or do you think you’ve found your sound in Big TV?No, we’ll continue to evolve I’m sure. With this record we said we really wanted to make a direct pop album and that’s pretty much what we’ve done in our own eyes. But having said that next time around we might totally set our aims differently and say we want to make this kind of record or that kind of record and we’re very focused so we’ll just go for it if we do. Who knows! At this point we’re not thinking about it. Although Harry and I have decided we’re going away to write the next one. We get work done anywhere, and we’ve written the three records in the borough of Acton so we’re like screw it, why aren’t we going to the Caribbean or something? So we’ll spend our own money, go on a holiday and write an album at the same time!
It seems these days bands are quickly compared to other bands and recently there’ve been a few between yourself and The Killers. Do you get tired of these ‘sounds like’ comparisons and think people should just take music as it is?I don’t mind rally, a lot of people that come and see our concerts might also want to go and see a Killer’s concert, or an Iron Maiden concert or they might want to watch Paul Simon or Beyonce, so it really doesn’t matter to me. As long as people are enjoying the music then that’s enough. I do get slightly frustrated of course when the odd lazy person accuses us of directly just copying those other bands, because that’s not what happens at all. We definitely do copy bands and everyone should, and everyone should steal, but we steal from very different sources from what we may end up sound like and be put into the same music bracket as. Like I said we steal from Seal, and…. What have we stolen on this record? There was one… I forget as soon as we’ve done it I forget! And then you’ll never hear it as it’s often something so different to us you’ll never make the comparison. There we are!
I know I’m going quite far back in time now, but I’m really interested in your transformation from Fear of Flying to White Lies. Only because I want to know what gave you the confidence to change your band name, image and sound, and not go to university, instead to make White Lies?I just think none of our hearts were totally into the idea of university. Every time it came about we just thought are we doing this just ‘cos we’re meant to? We were just really passionate about music. It didn’t ever feel like a particularly different decision. Our parents were very supportive, so we had a good feeling when the first White Lies songs came about. We had a few people around us saying ‘ok this is different now, this is starting to sound significant and it’s not just high school band any more’ and we were very lucky as we wrote Unfinished Business, Farewell To The Playground, and Death all within about two months or maybe even less, maybe even six weeks, and recorded them all. I remember that people had been getting very excited about Unfinished Business which was a song online, and our now manager, that’s the only thing that he’d heard and he was already very interested in working with us. Then I said we’re going to go and demo a couple of songs with our mate this weekend and we recorded Death. I remember listening to it and thinking this sounds really good! This feels significant. I remember sending it to him and getting an email back and he said ‘I don’t know what to say about this, I’m completely blown away, I don’t think you don’t quite realise what you’re onto here’. It was hearing stuff like that made us think well ok we don’t suck after all of these years! Let’s give this a real go! And we went from there, and it’s testament to it as we play Death and Unfinished Business at the end of the set. They’re the songs people want to hear and that carry really well all around the world. I’m glad we went with our gut instinct.
I’m a big fan of your Lana Del Ray ‘Ride’ cover! Was there any reason for doing it, or are there some songs you just really want to put your spin on?We always talk about doing covers, and there’s always a lot more talk than action. She is one, and old friend and someone that I’ve been quite close to her music at least in terms of I don’t know, the time that we were hanging out more was when she was making demos and we were demoing our records and there was a lot of sharing of ideas and playing each other’s music and stuff like that. I felt quite nostalgic with a couple of songs of hers. I remember when I heard that one I just thought it blew everything else out the water, I thought it was just such a well-written song. I really wish we’d written that! It’s kind of like a Killers song, or it could be a White Lies song as well and I would like to in some ways just to a full on, blown out massive band version of that. We do these stripped back acoustic sets for radio shows and little small events and we love doing covers in them and we love it as we feel like a wedding band, which is fun! We’ve been covering Prince for a while. We thought we should do another cover, and we’d been talking about Ride and Lana Del Ray and how people like that song, it’s quite contemporary to the Prince cover so let’s figure it out. We just came up with this way of doing it that works really well.
The last interview you had with us at Outline Magazine saw you going into your second album. You’ve come a long way over the past five years, have there been any highlights for you?There’ve been loads of highlights; I just can’t keep up with it all. We’ve travelled so many places, travelled so far and wide. Headlining Wembley Arena was a massive highlight, and will always be a massive highlight. I mean there is still the Glastonbury footage from the first album… maybe the second album tour… there is Glastonbury footage of Death online, which I still watch. Sometimes you meet people and they say ‘what do you do?’ and you say ‘oh I’m a musician in this band’ and they don’t know anything about it, and they want to know more and ask to be shown something. As much as I hate that kind of situation, if anyone is really pestering me for something, I say ok well look up this version of Death at Glastonbury from The Other Stage, which basically makes us look extremely successful. There’s a shit load of people in the audience, or at least there’s very good camera trickery making it look like a billion people are watching. So I sometimes watch that back and just think I certainly don’t remembering it happening in real time. It was an outer body experience that went by so quickly. But it’s really nice to have those sorts of things so easily available on the internet so I can at any point take a look and remind myself. There are highlights every week. A few days ago we were in Cologne and I honestly think we played the best set we’ve ever played in our whole career. It was just from start to finish I didn’t notice one mistake; it was just a really passionate and professional performance by all of us. We just sounded like a different band in some ways. It was just so professional and I get such a kick out of that as in my heart I still feel like a 15 year old kid practicing in Jack’s bedroom at his parents house and that feeling is still in me. I think we all have as none of us had any professional training and we all fell into this and lucked out really. It’s only through meticulous practice home alone and with each other, no teaching, that we got this far. When you do really hit your stride in a show and you actually feel like a professional musician – I suppose we are but I don’t feel like it – then you start playing like that, there’s no feeling like it.
You had aspirations and dreams of working with the likes of Bjork and Scott Walker – are you any closer to these, or have you had the opportunity to work with people recently that has caught the little boy inside of you off guard?Not really, we haven’t had that many opportunities to do anything like that. I think we’re more interested in working with different producers and see what they can bring out of our song writing and production, as opposed to working with other singers. That doesn’t interest us as much. Harry’s voice is so much part of White Lies that having someone else’s vocal on the way we play might not be that appropriate even if we love their vocal usually. I think we’re more interested in the collaborations with people who are more in the mechanics of it more than up front.
Now lastly, you’ve had sold out shows here before in Norwich, and you’re playing at the UEA when you come in December. Do you look back to previous gigs in towns when you arrive, or see each night as something new?You have memories; you do remember how things went last time. If you have a really great show there is definitely a pressure to try and recreate that in some way. And equally, if you’ve had a really awful show then you feel a bit nervous and want to make sure you rectify that. I think festivals are more prone to that as you definitely have a much bigger impression from them. I guess the Glastonbury thing, as that’s happened, if we were to play it again in the next few years we’ll definitely go into that situation with very strong visual memories of when we’ve done it before. But on this tour everything feels fresh and feels new. We’re just excited and really joyous on stage at the moment. We’re having more fun playing than ever before. We’re trying to treat everything like it’s a new chapter.
Philippa Askew
White Lies are playing Norwich UEA 14th December, with support from Frankie Rose. Charles is promising us something special, and I don’t think he’s telling us lies now…