Music > Interviews

Matt Abbott

28/07/15

Matt Abbott’s a performance poet from up North, and was previously the lyricist and front man in the band Skint & Demoralised, beloved by Steve Lamacq. His kitchen sink realism style of poetry has been influenced by John Cooper Clarke and Norwich’s own Luke Wright and is winning him fans all over the country. Apart from doing loads of shows, he also runs workshops for the homeless and in youth offenders institutes. He’s politically charged, he’s honest, funny and a big talent. And he’s at Norwich Arts Centre this month. I spoke to him about what the kids think of poetry these days and who the best lyricists are.

How long have you been writing poetry for and what does it offer you as an art form?

I started writing poetry in October 2006, a few months before my 18th birthday. At the time, it was the height of the indie music scene, and with Escobar in Wakefield we felt it pretty strongly. There were bands like Arctic Monkeys and The Pigeon Detectives passing through but more than that, my mates were on stage brandishing a fuzzy guitar and skinny jeans too. I won't lie; I wanted a bit of the action! But I'm no singer, and I'm no musician, and whilst I did form a couple of bands which (fortunately) never surfaced, it was when I tried my hand at "punk poetry" that something really clicked. I just did short bursts at first; introducing bands and before long acting as compère. It was unusual, which I thrived on. It was a novelty, but a novelty that impressed people and more than anything gave me an incredible buzz. Also, crucially, it was instantly accessible; both to me and to the audience. I could quite feasibly write a poem, and within minutes stick a recording on MySpace, or perform it at a gig that night. No guitar, no band; just words. Which meant that I could do it to a good standard without months of practice or hundreds of quid on an instrument, pedals, amps, etc., and that the audience needed no musical persuasion to connect with what I was doing. In many ways that's still what it offers me as an art form; minimal barriers. If you can write, speak and hear then you can write, perform and consume poetry. That's it. And when you're on stage, it's just you and your words. Which is terrifying in a way, but ultimately the reason that it's so rewarding.

You first got up onstage as a poet when you were 17. What was that first time like for you?

To be honest I was quite lucky because I wasn't expecting it, and when I realised it was going to happen, I only had a few minutes to prepare. So I didn't really have time to fret or stew or get nervous. Also, I didn't realise how difficult it was standing there on the mic! We were at a Bromheads Jacket aftershow party in Sheffield (my sister was the cool one, not me). It was in a secret underground club in the middle of Sheffield's red light district (no exaggeration) and they were doing an open mic/jam session. My sister knew the organisers (I told you she was the cool one), and they'd heard some of my stuff on MySpace (via music forums, those were the days), and so they let me get up. I performed three poems, and it went really well. Afterwards, I went straight to the (unlicensed) bar, and somebody came up and congratulated me. The adrenaline was like nothing I'd ever felt before, and since that moment, I've never really looked back. I was hooked.

You’ve been quite involved in politics. How did you first start to get interested and involved in it?

I studied Government & Politics at A-Level, and also Modern European History, which obviously overlaps a fair bit. So from the age of 16 I was absolutely fascinated by politics, and in my usual manner threw myself in head first at a thousand miles an hour. One of the first poems that I ever wrote followed a conversation with a Big Issue seller in Blackpool, which in hindsight was pretty political, but it didn't really reach the forefront of my poetry for a couple of months. A few blokes that I'd been hanging around with at Leeds United games were BNP supporters, and after a trip to Auschwitz with my History class, I basically shit a brick and realised full scale how horrific racism was, and how close the BNP were in my life at the time. So I wrote my now trademark 'Nazis on the Doorstep' poem. Shortly afterwards I attended a political demo in London, and on the way back, I was sat next to a guy called Andy Brammer, who's a political activist from Wakefield. I asked him if I could perform my poem at a Love Music Hate Racism event that he was organising in April (2007), and he reluctantly agreed (I can't blame him). I was introduced onto the stage by Jerry Dammers from The Specials, and when I finished my poem, it was genuinely met with rapturous applause. It felt incredible. I did a lot of political stuff in 2009 in particular, and A Firm Of Poets' #FirmAgainstApathy campaign in the lead-up to this year's General Election was a highlight as well.

Skint & Demoralised did really well Steve Lamacq championed you, you played all the major festivals, released 3 albums, and went on tour together. How come you decided to call it a day?

From forming in May 2007 until around September 2009 we did phenomenally well. To be honest it still doesn't feel real. It's so long ago, and my life back then was so insanely different to what it is now. But when our supposed big hit 'Red Lipstick' charted at UK#100, Universal made a decision that S&D were no more. They dragged us along until around May 2010, at which point we were genuinely relieved to be dropped. We decided at that stage to call it a day, and flirted with an electronic album (harking back to our original demos), but by the end of the year we'd written and recorded the second S&D album. I managed to get us a new deal with indie label Heist Or Hit Records, and they released both albums in August 2011. I worked my arse off, and we did a 20-date tour in the October of that year followed by a few dates in Germany in December, but it cost the label a fortune and whilst there was clearly still a fanbase, it didn't set the world alight. Again we decided to call it a day, but there was still an album in us, and in May 2013 we released 'The Bit Between The Teeth'. I still consider it my favourite from an artistic perspective. But at that point we realised it'd ran its course. Our lives had changed so much in the intervening period that it was almost impossible to carry on. I was an 18 year old boy when we started! But also, to be brutally honest, the momentum was barely there - for whatever reason - so it all kind of fell out of place at the same time. I'm still immensely proud of S&D though, even though most of the time it's bittersweet, and it gives me a lot of pleasure knowing that the albums are still out there to be potentially discovered (hey kids, they're even on Spotify).

Who do you consider to be the best lyricists out there?

Good question! Well, I constantly wrestle between Bob Dylan and Morrissey (there's an image) as to who my favourite lyricist of all-time is. And Billy Bragg wouldn't be too far behind. They're all still gigging and releasing music of course, so I could choose them, but if you mean a truly contemporary artist...I would say Grace Petrie. I've tried writing political song lyrics a few times and they always just sound cringe-worthy and contrived. Whereas she's an absolute genius. Her political stuff gives Billy Bragg a run for his money any day. And I'm lucky enough to have shared a stage with her a few times. Special shout out to Guy Garvey as well though, for completely different reasons.

If you had the opportunity to provide lyrics for any musician(s) who would it be and why?

Interesting question! If we'd properly made it with S&D and I had the choice of collaborating with any musical artist (which I suppose is the gist of your question), I'd choose the Pet Shop Boys. I love Neil Tennant as a songwriter and I love a lot of his lyrics, and I think it'd be a really interesting combination. I realise that's not an obvious choice, but I'm just being honest!

You started up the performance poetry collective A Firm of Poets; how did you meet those guys and get together?

A Firm Of Poets was founded by myself and Ralph Dartford. I'd met Ralph through his partner, Jacqui Wicks, because she runs an arts organisation called Ossett Observer, and me being an Ossett lad who'd had relative artistic success, she wanted to get in touch and rack my brains. Ossett is a small town on the outskirts of Wakefield by the way, for those wondering. And Wakefield is a small city on the outskirts of Leeds. Anyway... I ended up spending a lot of time with Ralph at Glastonbury 2013. We watched a fair bit of spoken word, did a few gigs together, did a lot of partying, and amongst it all, had a frustrated but determined conversation about first of all our own spoken word careers but second of all the general spoken word scene; in West Yorkshire but also nationwide. A lot of the spoken word that we saw was very self-indulgent and exclusive; poets writing for other poets and not the "common man". We believed that poetry should be accessible and entertaining. And so started A Firm Of Poets...we began recruiting like-minded spoken word acts for our shows, and it sort of just grew from there.

Which poets, old and new, do you particularly relate to, or enjoy?

To be blatantly honest, I'm not from a "poetry background" and I'll be the first to admit that in terms of actual poetry, I'm not massively well read. My main inspirations for the bulk of my career have been lyricists (Dylan, Morrissey, Bragg, Difford/Tilbrook, MacGowan, etc.). Having said that, in terms of me starting as a performance poet (in the style of a punk poet to begin with), it has to be John Cooper Clarke. Stating the obvious I know, but I was instantly infatuated with his style; content, delivery, sense of humour, story; everything. If you're not familiar with JCC then stop reading this right now and check him out. I'm also massively into Charles Bukowski, although that's only really crept into a few of my poems to date; most of which are waiting to be published. I love his poetry and his novels. His tone, pace and imagery are mesmerising, and his cynical sneer on Western culture is just as sharp and relevant now as it ever was. The "lowlife laureate". I love Oscar Wilde, James Joyce and D.H. Lawrence but predominantly for their other mediums, although I love at least a few poems from each. I'm getting into T.S. Eliot too. In terms of contemporary poets, I really love Luke Wright's stuff. Mike Garry is always worth seeing live. I'm a big fan of Louise Fazackerley. Helen Mort is destined to be the next laureate. Elvis McGonagall and Attila the Stockbroker are huge inspirations to me. And of course everybody in A Firm Of Poets!

You’re from Wakefield. To what extent has your environment affected what you have to say in your poetry?

To a massive extent. I think it has to. The golden rule is only write about what you know. So whilst they're not all explicitly about Wakefield as a place, I view the world through eyes that grew up in Wakefield, and my initial understanding of culture is the culture that I experienced in Wakefield. It's a part of who I am. By no means should this be a limitation, and for decent periods I've lived in London and Sheffield and I've done a lot of travelling around the UK on tour and for work, but I'll always be a Wakey lad. My style is very much a contemporary take on the kitchen sink realism that drove the British new wave in the late '50s and early '60s. It's what really excites me as a reader and as a writer, and I love highlighting the minutiae of everyday life. "Capture the universal in the particular", as JCC once said. I can appreciate surrealist art and poetry, but to be really turned on I need to be able to relate to it. And I can only relate to things with my own experiences; many of which took place in Wakefield.

You’ve run quite a few workshops with young people. How do find their reaction to the idea of performance poetry? Is poetry more hip now than perhaps 30 years ago do you think?

Well, there's a reason that a lot of places use "spoken word" as opposed to "poetry" when they're describing these kind of workshops! The thing that I always tell people is that poetry and spoken word is in many ways the same as song lyrics, including rap, in that you're using words to first of all create music and also to paint pictures. Which might sound clichéd. But I guess what I mean is, the poetry that I know and love is completely transferable; I don't stick to form or iambic pentameter or write responses to 18th century ballads. I tell stories, offer opinion, relay emotions and sometimes have a laugh. As soon as you ditch the preconceptions, poetry can be whatever you want it to be. Which takes me back to the first question in the interview; it's accessible. Pretty much anyone can do it. I'm on the team of Creative Practitioners at The Hepworth Gallery in Wakefield, which is one of the most prestigious art galleries in the country. And yet I have no degree or qualifications, I'm not from a "poetry background", and I don't write poetry with any sense of tradition or form. Which is one of the reasons that they chose me. Also, as well as working with schools, I do workshops with homeless charities and young offenders institutes. Poetry is an amazing outlet for emotion stockpiled, and by categorising what you're saying as a poem, it often makes it easier to say. It helps people build bridges between the problems lurking in their subconscious. I realise that might sound pretentious, but honestly, it's a brilliant tool. They often sneer and say "poetry's shit", and then half an hour later they sheepishly say, "do you want to read one of mine...", to which I grin, obviously!

Do you generally follow a set process when you write a poem? Is it a quick thing for you or do you mull it over for some time?

No, not at all. I hate to admit it but I do find it a lot easier writing on my laptop than I do on paper. But the way that I write is sort of like a Rubix cube I guess; words and phrases will be there, and then I shuffle and slot and switch them around until they fit into a verse. Although a lot of the poems are very much a stream of consciousness and are written in fifteen minutes. The initial idea is the hardest bit. Some take a week or two, though. There's no trend really. You just have to know when to write, and when not to write. Always have something with you that enables you to write. And always observe. But never force it. That's all I can say!

You’re doing a show at the Edinburgh Fringe this year for the first time, and you’re previewing it at Norwich Arts Centre. What can we expect when we come see you?

Well, one of the best compliments that I tend to receive us, "do you know, I never usually like poetry, but I liked that" or, "I didn't expect to like it, but I did." I suppose I'm reaching out to "normal people" who aren't "into" poetry and shouting "DON'T WORRY, I'M ONE OF YOU!", but whilst doing poetry. The Edinburgh show is a combination of witty self-deprecating anecdotes, socio-political commentaries and characterisations. But they all pull upon a certain theme. I'd like to think that it's humble and honest whilst also being rousing and moving. It's funny but it's visceral. And it's accessible and conversational whilst also having poetic flair. Well, that's what I am for, anyway. If not you can expect to see a nervous Yorkshireman pacing the stage whilst the venue programmer hides behind his pint at the back of the room...See you in the Ten Bells afterwards?