Music > Interviews

Public Image Ltd

20/08/15

John Lydon is the lead singer in Public Image Ltd., who have been in existence on and off since the demise of The Sex Pistols in 1978. Their music is virtually impossible to define, and has been influential to all varieties of musicians since then. John is, of course, one of those instantly recognisable humans, like Mother Theresa or Bob Marley; one of the world’s musical heroes, the King of Punk and star of I’m A Celebrity and That Butter Advert. Infamous, mischievous, outspoken, wise but not mellowed, bright as a button and hugely talented, John was an absolute delight to speak to about PiL’s forthcoming show at UEA at the end of September. And he never said even one rude word to me.

Are you looking forward to returning to the UK to play some PiL gigs next month?

We come back quite a bit; we’ve recorded the last two albums there and are heading back now to rehearse. England is our central base: we just live elsewhere. In fact, Scotty, our bass player, lives in Norwich!

You lived in Norfolk for a year when you were little as your dad worked on oil rigs in the North Sea. Do you have any memories of your time here?

Yeah we were there just for half a year, for a winter in Bacton-on-Sea on a holiday camp, and we were the only people there. Blistering fun! It was very very very stormy, but I was so impressed with the high cliffs and watching that roaring North Sea…I loved it.

Your new single Double Trouble is truly outstanding, and there’s a new album out in September. How was it recording as PiL this time around?

It’s as good as any time, more so than ever because of how close we are with each other. It’s taken years and years for this band to finally evolve into the thing it needed to be, which is friendship first and the music will follow. I’ve worked in the past, struggling through the music, hoping that would achieve friendship but I learn that doesn’t work.

Would you say this is the ultimate PiL line up currently then?

Yes, yes I would…for now! We don’t know what taunts and turmoils lay ahead, but these are my true friends.

Your new album’s called What The World Needs Now.  Who and what inspired you when you were writing the songs for it?

It weren’t no politician or religious leader! Although they’re always good fodder for me to fire cannon shots at. Just the sheer enjoyment of being alive. For me personally, I had just completed the first book, Anger Is An Energy, and in it I describe my childhood illnesses (ed’s note: John suffered meningitis as a child, was in a coma as a result for several months, lost his memory entirely and took some years for him to recover). It was refreshing to get away from that ponderousness and launch into something exciting and remind myself that without that endurance course I went through in my early years I wouldn’t be able to enjoy myself now. It made me who I am.

I’ve heard the album and it’s great; really complex but also beautifully simple. I particularly liked your track Bettie Page; what was it about her that made you want to write a song named after her?

A bit of hero worship really; anyone who stands up and espouses what they truly believe in and are of some value I’m going to celebrate. There are an awful lot of American heroes – I’ve recently become an American – but I think the truer people are those like Bettie Page or Mae West who were viewed as pornographic at the time, but they weren’t! They were all about freeing up your body and telling people not to be ashamed of themselves, and for me that is a great achievement. It doesn’t matter about the body shape, it’s the confidence in the eyes that draws me in and draws everybody in.

In Shoom, from your new album, you say “What the world needs now is another Fuck Off”. What did you mean by that?

It’s told from my daddy’s point of view. I wanted to write a song for him and it’s kind of like a requiem. It’s a fond memory of my dad; we’d go out and he’d be in the corner cursing every song that came on the jukebox or whatever but it was never vindictive, it was his sense of humour, very ironic and with perfect timing. Very working class with a huge touch of Irish in it. That’s what that song is really, and it’s though my own voice, sharing my father with you.

The musicians in PiL at the moment have a huge legacy of previous bands they’ve played with before, like The Damned, The Slits and The Pop Group. What’s the relationship like between you all?

We’re all equal. I don’t employ anyone. It’s an equal footing; in the songwriting and everything else, the only way it can work for me is a fair play approach to life. Some of these fellas I’ve known for thirty years plus, most of my life, and it was always obvious to me when I got the chance to get PiL back together again after the record company treated me so cruelly, that I would work with people that I really respected as friends. What we are is a band of misfits; we don’t fit in anywhere but we fit in well with each other. We make the kind of music we can’t find anywhere else.

Do you consider yourself a protest singer?

No, I’m a folk singer. I’m one of the folk and I sing to my folk. I sing about what folk endure in life. I do all that under the guise of pop music, but unlike pop music I don’t believe in ageism; I never believed in “hope I die before I get old”, in fact I intend to get to a very very old age! Don’t be ashamed! The longer you live, the more you know, the more you can share with others.

Punk is seen by some as an angry and dangerous form of music, but it’s also offers, and has offered, a really tight community. Is it one of those genres that you can truly only understand from the inside?

Punk did some wonderful things both socially and economically…we created the idea of DIY in music and suddenly everyone picked up instruments and DID THINGS. And here I am, King of the Punks, and we’re still doing things and still helping people out of the doldrums. We wore garbage bags when we had to! We weren’t drawn into what society deemed at the time as ‘beautiful’; we created our own identity. Punk was all about the art of the individual until The Sun and The Daily Mail got hold of it! Punk is internal; an escape from isolation and finding out that you can share yourself with others and that there is a place for you in the world after all. Isolation doesn’t get any of us anywhere, so be generous in your exuberance!

Punk was really one of the first forms of music where women were of equal status to men; I’m thinking of Siouxsie Sioux, or The Slits. Women like Taylor Swift or Beyonce are doing very well these days, but surely there are so many less women in other genres than there should be?

One of the major great things that Punk did was that it allowed women for the first ever to be the equal of men on stage. Taylor Swift is a curious juxtaposition of events! It’s part of the manufactured pop process which is dreadfully limiting. But she also is capable for standing up for musicians’ rights, so she gets my vote on that respect. She makes a lot of young girls very happy indeed; they just love to hear her slagging off her latest boyfriend! Beyonce’s a bit of a weird genius; she’s very creative. A fascinating feline creature.

You have such a strong presence and seem incredibly confident yet I know you can suffer from stage fright too; have you found ways of dealing with it?

I’ve discovered many people suffer from it, and I’ve read up on it and learnt that it’s the adrenaline building inside you; it makes you feel physically ill but when you get onstage and can release that, you actually need it to be your complete self. You should always fear letting people down. That’s the reward of it; you’ve put that much energy into it, you’re not going to give up easy!

I know that as a child you learnt how to sing badly to avoid the Catholic priest choirmaster at school who abused kids. Also, the lumbar punches you had during your time in hospital recovering from meningitis made your back bad, and also you had to wear glasses afterwards so you squinted. These things obviously helped form the look and attitude of Johnny Rotten. To what extent do you think your personality and style were already formed by the time you were ten?

Yes, very much so! That was my greatest achievement in life, recovering from that. Later in life I was accused of crafting all that; hello??!? Something comes from something. There’s many that have had it far worse than me.

What do you listen to now? Any new bands you’d recommend?

No, at the moment I don’t want to listen to anything because I’m getting ready to tour and I don’t want to be following other people’s tunes in the back of my head when I’m trying to concentrate on getting this side of it together. I close shop to the outside world, somewhat, and the only time I open up my storefront is when I’m doing these interviews. Other than that it’s a long, steady slow process of getting over my nerves and getting the energy up to do what’s required.

Is there anything in particular you need to have with you when you’re on tour?

Yeah! A wall of neurotic medicines! Nothing that makes me dopey or hyper and I sway away from the chemicals. The booze I’ve stopped. I try not to do anything that might block or destroy my memory. Since losing my memory when I was young I love remembering every second of everything and anything that gets in the way of that I just don’t want to have in my life. I’m a wide awake kind of fella!

What do you think of Virgin putting the Never Mind The Bollocks’ image on a credit card?

Fantastic! They rung us and asked us! I though it was a bloody good idea. It was a hilarious approach. It was very very respectful and I was surprised. In many ways it was a “sorry!” and also a homage to us. I love it….how are the banking systems of the world going to deal with that one?!

What would you say is the one defining moment from your musical career thus far?

Oh! Um…regaining my memory between the ages of 7 and 11. They were torturous years for me, but that was the beginning of being me, at 11, when I moved to secondary school, where all the nonsense from the nuns and everyone in the school calling me “dummy dum dum” ceased to exist. That was the highlight of my life and I’ve never looked back since then. It was a fresh start. I had to catch up…I could read and write at four, but lost it when I had the meningitis and I had to start again.

We’re excited to see you in Norwich!

Yippee! The Canaries are my second favourite football club! From when I was young in Bacton! I had a bobble hat and a scarf…I fell in love with the colour and with the team! Hilariously, I spoke to Stephen Fry and didn’t know he was a Norwich supporter. What a strange world!

PiL play UEA LCR on 30th September. Tickets available from ueaticketbookings.co.uk

Lizz Page