Arts > Theatre

Interview with Paul Daniels

03/12/13

Magic, understandably, is an elusive term to quantify. By its very nature, the unknown can never be entirely known. But what is magic? Sorcery, witchcraft, conjuring, trickery, illusion are all arms of the paranormal, but what about the kind of enchantment that saw every generation in the family, in their thousands, entirely mesmerised every Saturday night by a short, funny man and his glamorous assistant. Having the entire family enthralled in front of the box every weekend – now that’s magic. I’m in danger of sounding surprisingly sycophantic, but in researching this interview and talking to the man himself, I’ve developed a respect for Paul, and his enduring relationship with a very genuine Debbie McGee. They’ve lived and worked together all these years now; taken the jokes on the chin, rolled the punches and worked tirelessly, the latest fruits of which can be seen as they come to the Playhouse this December…

How are you today, Paul?I'm good, what's remaining of me.

What's remaining, Paul?Me and one bag. I just got in from Denmark but one of the bags didn't. It's the third time this year.

Yes, I thought I saw on Twitter that a while ago, you'd arrived in Heathrow but your bags hadn't. That's the worst thing - are you coping without the required luggage?Oh yes… new knickers! [Laughs] No, it's fine. You kind of get used to it; you just make sure your essentials are in the hand baggage. And then they deliver the stuff hours or days later in special courier vans. I came to the conclusion watching a group of people checking in and saying "my bags have gone missing", that if airlines were more efficient, flying would be cheaper! They're paying for everything!

Do you think your luggage gets to travel first class?My luggage didn't even go! From the moment I showed him the ticket, he scanned it and said, "ah yes, that's still in Copenhagen!

Paul, I wanted to say, before we got too far into this interview that we're an independent magazine and we do very much appreciate your time today.Oh, you must be very rich…

Of course, free magazines are raking it in at the moment!Oh, don't be polite, it's all your millions you get from advertising…!

What, all the bars and pubs of Norwich that are doing their best just to stay open? No, we haven't got money, but we do it for the love, don't we?How can you look so clean and lie so dirty? [Laughs]

I lie not - you'll see when you come to Norwich; i'll be begging outside the Playhouse, that'll be me.[Laughs] I'll teach you a couple of tricks - you can go busking!

Ha, yeah! I'd love that. So Paul, you're coming to Norwich as part of this huge tour.Yes, I think it tots up to about 51 nights.

That's a fair work schedule, that. But you came to Norwich not so long ago as well. My office is directly opposite the Maddermarket Theatre, where you performed a couple of years back. We were on Daniels-watch out the window.Yeah, however for those who came then and enjoyed it, but think they've seen it, this is a completely different show. Yep, which has made it extraordinarily exciting for me. I sort of put it together earlier in the year. Once every two years, we put together a show for the RNLI, I guess because holiday-wise, growing up we were always taken to the Norfolk Broads. I always have this thing in my head about the RNLI coming up the river! [Laughs] But in the creation of this thing every two years, I said to Debbie, "Look, we know we're going on tour - let's put together a completely new show and see where it takes us." And the festival we did - it got really well received and I said, "this is the show." Then it got tweeked, and at the last minute a fairly hilarious card trick got put in. But the main part of it was put together earlier this year, as a piece, and has worked really well everywhere.

I've noticed that the Norwich is the last date of the tour before Christmas.Yeah, because Debbie's going off - she's Queen of the Flower Fairies in Pantomime, Jack of the Beanstalk. And I - when people look at those lists, on my website for example, they think, 'oh look, he's got nights off, he's alright'! But actually I'm doing corporate jobs and there's a phenomenally large party in the middle of it all. So what happens is I'm not really being idle and sending the wife out to work! Although I would like to become a kept man!

I was going to ask whether the Daniels-McGee household is very traditional at Christmas, but you must have had to work out your own traditions over the years, both working so heavily?Well yeah, but we still do it; we're both from families that are very family-orientated, and Christmas is the time, isn't it, when it all comes together.

Absolutely, and I really gleaned that from the research I've been doing, that you're a real family man. I'm a typical cancerian, a home-loving girl, and I've been reading about how you are too. You still worry about your grown-up sons…Well first of all, let's look backwards a bit; Linda Goodman wrote a book called 'Sun Signs' and of course we'd all like to believe there's something in this, that and the other, but Patrick Moore - y'know, the astronomer - his eyebrows would start jerking up and down. He'd say, "how can these people believe that a star in the heavens, that probably died millions of years ago and the light still hasn't got to us… [laughs] How can they believe that affects when they're born, or their personalities - it's such nonsense," he'd say. Linda Goodman had just brought out a book after constantly looking - as everybody does - for something new to write about: 'Sun Signs'. What I did, was I got a secretary in the office to write the synopsis for each chapter out, but switch all the headings. Then at a showbiz party or two, they always get on about it, don't they - "Oh, I'm an Aries, which is why I'm strong and powerful," and all that - "I'm a Capricorn - the old goat!" Anyway, I'd say "Oh, I'm writing a book on that." "Really?", they'd say. Then I'd take them out of the briefcase and show them and they all said, "Oh, that's me… that's definitely me."

Really?Well of course - it's what is known as code reading in the world of the psychics and all that. You start off telling people such generalisations that they will start to find themselves in it, you know. It really is nonsense. And having a magazine of course, who does the horoscopes for your magazine? It's always the juniors in, like, The Evening Gazette! If horoscopes worked, how come Russell Grant didn't know he wasn't going to win Strictly Come Dancing?

I just want to clear up a matter of housekeeping, Paul - you're touring so much, so who's looking after your beautiful rabbits? I've seen pictures of them on Twitter; they're so cute, and I've become concerned about their welfare. Are they OK?At the moment, they're on holiday with Debbie's parents. We're well set up here for them, when they come home; they're house rabbits and they're the fastest animals I've ever known to train -

- Are they?Oh, 20 minutes! They have a six foot six run in the lounge, which is a good 2ft wide and it's quite high, because they like to jump, but they're always allowed out of there too. They run around the house, yeah.

Now I'm sure it's a painful memory in every sense, but it must have taken incredible strength and sheer energy to get over 'Fingergate' last year.[Laughs] Yeah, well you know, a piece of timber snapped and the inpetus took my hand towards a table saw and I can remember at the time saying, "oh bother!" No, what I can remember at the time was being astonished by natural reactions. My dad taught me to drive and in those days it wasn't automatic - it was a manual car and he taught me repetitively how to hit the breaks, over and over again so that when an accident happened, it would be instinctive. And I remember being distinctly surprised when a child ran out in front of my car and my legs went out - BANG! Instinctively, you know. Now by the same token, when my hand went under the saw, my other hand swung under the bench and immediately hit the stop button, but by that point i'd lost a finger and the other one was hanging off. And I was on my own; it was New Year's Day and Debbie was on air - she's got her own radio show - and so I just slammed my hand against my chest and drove myself to the hospital.

Be honest with me Paul - were you operating dangerous machinery with a bit of a hangover?No, I don't drink; i'm a non-drinker. In a way, I think i'm quite lucky to have been brought up by parents who didn't bother with it. It wasn't a case of not wanting to, or this, that or the other, it's just that I don't really get it. When I'm asked what my favourite drink is, I always say Lowcocks lemonade, which is a lemonade manufacturers in the north east - which it is! I like the taste of it! I remember as a young man, going in the army and all the lads said, "go on, have a beer," you know, and I thought it tasted awful. "Don't worry, it'll be an acquired taste," they said, but why the hell would I want to acquire a taste that I don't like? It's the same with smoking; I tried it at 15 and thought, "Hmmm, why am I setting fire to money?!"

Paul, on your website and Twitter, it says, "International Sex Symbol. Bodybuilder." which are a couple of areas I wasn't aware of about your career -- How dare you madam?! It should have been instinctive.

Well of course, when I read it I thought, 'ah, it all makes sense now.'[Laughs] You're back to lying dirty, OK. No, it's just I don't take myself too seriously, that's it. If you look at the parallel Twitter profile, it's Debbie's, which says, "So he says", which is the completion of the joke.

Yes, I love that about you two. You've not only been in the same industry all these years, but you two have been in the same act for the most-part of your careers -- Well yes, on and off. I wasn't in Debbie's ballet!

And more was the pity!I think so, although I almost got on stage one time. I nearly did. The dancer who was playing the Doctor in Coppelia - do you know the ballet, Coppelia?

I do, yes.Well the doctor doesn't have to dance much, but the guy who was playing it got ill and I was the only guy around who kind of knew the part because I'd built the props and everything for it. Sadly for me, he just felt well enough to do it.

Oh, the doctor recovers. They're great parts those; all based on the classic characters of traditional Italian theatre that you recognise in so many plays, so you can get into it no problem.Exactly, and I actually really enjoyed being out your way, in Lowestoft, and playing Scrooge, as a play, not a musical. I really enjoyed it and one of the most exciting bits for me was one night, waiting behind the curtain, you could see the audience and I said to the other cast members, "they're all kids. Oh god - I hope they do'n't think it's a Pantomime." But we did it, and it went well. Afterwards I came out and there was this huge group of kids waiting for their bus, you know, and they were quite small -

- Children do tend to be, yes.[Laughs] Ha, yes, well we chatted and had a bit of a laugh and I said, "Did you like that?" And they said, "Oh yeah, it was marvellous." And I thought to myself, 'Wow, we must not underestimate children, ever'. Here's a group of kids who'll be aware, in their psyche, that theatre is really good. Theatre is really good. I speak to so many people, because I'm always sayinh, "Go - have a night out, for goodness' sake. Go to the theatre." Because it's easy to get home from work and sit in front of the telly, but your life is lessened. You have no idea - if you don't go to the theatre, you have no idea what a good adventure it is. Now, thankfully Twitter and Facebook are bringing that kind of experience and awareness to a younger audience, because the reviews we've been getting are fantastic. People have been saying, "Hooray, i've got my tickets for Norwich. Looking forward to seeing you", and if you favourite those, the word goes about. And again, we've had all this stuff where people have come out and said, "this is funnier than any stand up show I've ever been to", and they'd never been to anything but stand up shows. So it's great.

Comedy's always been that extra dimension for you though, hasn't it? You must have been aware from a young age that you couldn't just be good at magic, that you needed another calling card.Yeah, well I looked at me; I'm not very tall, I don't think I'm particularly good looking and my body language, therefore, is not that of the tall, elegant, dove-producing conjuror. So I deliberately studied comedy and learnt it, and in my seminars that I do, I teach other people - because magicians could be considered nerds, geeks, whatever you like - how they can develop comedy. I had one fella say to me, "I don't think I'm very funny", and I said, "Maybe you're not, but on the other hand if you're talking visually and attitude-wise, there's Les Dawson - morose, you know…" What he did with his timing and his talk was funny, so you find your own way of doing comedy. I mean hello Jack Dee!

You were talking about not underestimating children's love for the theatre. When I was a child, I thought about the Magic Circle a lot differently than I do now. It used to seem spooky and unattainable, but now I can't help but think of the Ministry of Magic from Harry Potter. Kids like books again…Well yes, but the stuff of wizards and the Ministry of Magic is all stuff of myth; in fact, the proper use of the word magician is: a person of fable, someone who can do the impossible and defy all the laws of nature and physics, but therefore what we do is we are conjurors, and we are actors playing the part of these fabulous creatures, magicians. But I loved those books; they were so descriptive. From the very first bit where his aunty is walking down the street and she's described as having an extended neck from looking over the hedges of the houses of her neighbours. I mean please! That's just wonderful.

You've been scathing of the Press before, but I can absolutely promise you that we're not a sensationalist publication and I have no interest in editing your words for our own gain. So I wanted to ask, Paul, what do you think the most common misrepresentation of yourself has been, and you can set that straight…Blimey. Well, I don't know; I have never expected everyone to know me, or like me because I don't like everyone on my TV. I couldn't expect everyone in the nation to like me without exception. I sat at a dinner table once - big dinner table, very posh, Prince Philip and all that - and we were all laughing and a chap two away from me said, "I say, that chap must be a comedian, or something." And at the time I thought, 'well, if there's one person on this planet who doesn't know who Eric Morcambe is, i'll never expect people to recognise me.' Debbie has a wonderful expression about certain TV performers and presenters; she says, "You know, I wouldn't invite them round for dinner, so why are they in my lounge?"So I have never expected it, and i'm always happy when people like what I do, and of course the audiences that come, they've proved that they do. One of the best things about it is when you get a bloke afterwards who says, "Well, I couldn't stand you on the telly, but the wife made me come and I have to say, I've loved every minute." [Laughs] I've got a tape where I recorded it, when we appeared in Dublin. It was an arts programme and they sent a couple of people off to review the show. They said here's so and so, and so and so - Paddy and Mary, I don't know - and he said, "I've got to tell ye", he says, "I can't stand this man and you made me go off to see him, and I'm dreading it in the taxi. But you know, he hadn't been on stage but a minute and I thought, d'you know, I wouldn't mind buying him a drink." But listen, the only think that's slightly misquoted is that you say that I'm scathing of the press; yes, I am, but the national press. My first job I was ever offered was as a journalist and I thought it was an honourable profession, but i'm afraid the national newspapers are the ones I go for because I think what they've done to your industry is disgusting. I just think they've ruined a fabulous concept. I will cheer and yell for the right to free speech, providing it's telling the truth.

I'm fully on board with that, and in our tiny little way, we try and set some things straight.We love our local newspapers; we've got a couple, and local magazines. In fact, I can just reach out and turn over my village newspaper. It's just there! And of course there's no point in them lying, becuase we know who they're writing about. We know where they live!

Emma R. Garwood

Paul Daniels: The First Farewell Tour comes to The Playhouse on Thurs 19th December. For tickets, go to www.norwichplayhouse.co.uk/box-office.